Wart remedies and snake oil

[unixronin]

Wen the Eternally Surprised has a major outbreak of highly persistent warts on her fingers.  We've tried all the over-the-counter remedies, and they've been frozen twice with liquid nitrogen to no avail.  As a last possible resort while we wait for the dermatologist appointment (the dermatologists are booked up four months ahead), the pediatrician suggested we try something called "thuja", a tree extract.

Well, I finally found the stuff today, at the health food store.  It turns out to be packaged as a homeopathic remedy, in half-ounce vials at either 12C or 30C "strength" (read: dilution).  This is probably a good thing, as it is generally stated that the primary active ingredient in "oil of thuja" is thujone.

Now, let's stop here a moment and do some simple math.  The molecular formula for thujone is C₁₀H₁₆O, and its molecular weight is 152.23.  Let's assume, just for the moment, that oil of thuja were actually pure thujone.  (It isn't, but the assumption gives us some actual numbers to work with instead of ballpark guesses.)  Using our old friend Avogadro's number (6.023x10²³), we can calculate that a half-ounce vial — call it 14 grams — of thujone contains about 5.5x10²² thujone molecules ... before dilution.  But remember those cryptic strength ratings?

Well, it turns out that 1C means a 100:1 dilution.  And it's geometric.  2C is 10000:1; 3C is 1000000:1.  Doing the math, 12C "strength" is a dilution of 10²⁴:1.

But wait!  We only started out with 5.5x10²² thujone molecules in the first place.  That means that, statistically speaking, there is a chance fractionally better than 1 in 18 that any given 14-gram vial of 12C oil of thuja extract contains a single molecule of thujone.

But wait!  It gets better!  There's a 30C strength!  At 100:1 dilution each time, that is an additional 10³⁶:1 dilution.  That means there's roughly one thujone molecule for every 5.5x10³⁷ 14g vials of the 30C extract.  That's such a huge number that not only are there not enough 14g vials on the entire planet for any one of them to have a statistically significant probability of containing a single thujone molecule, but I think I can say with good confidence that there is not anywhere on the planet a 14g vial of 30C homeopathic thujone extract that contains a single molecule of alcohol (thujone is soluble in alcohol, but not in water) that has ever been in the same container of any size with even a single molecule of thujone.

So the 30C, and even the 12C, thujone preparations are pure alcohol with a slight chance, at the 12C dilution, of being contaminated by a thujone molecule.  But then even that is processed and made into pellets.  Well, you can't make alcohol into a pellet; it's a volatile liquid.  I'd wager those pellets don't even contain any more than residual traces of the alcohol solvent — I'd bet they're composed entirely of binders and other non-active ingredients with possible trace impurities left behind by the alcohol.

The essence of snake oil, huh?  So why do I say this is probably a good thing?

Well, you see, thujone is reported to be "toxic to both brain and liver cells", and is widely classified as a neurotoxin.  So aren't you glad that when you buy the stuff for your health, you aren't actually getting any of it?

Comments

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

Plausible mechanism: Resonant chemistry and frequency.

Molecules have certain resonant frequencies based on bond length and atomic mass. Organs and living cells also have resonant frequencies. Match frequencies for strength, use node harmonics for weakening. Harmonics are key.

Not saying it is right, (Though it is unstudied, and makes sense at several levels.) but it does give some sort of plausible mechanism.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but how would that work when there are no molecules of the "active ingredient" left in the preparation? A 30C homeopathic preparation is a 10⁶⁰ dilution. That's almost halfway to the order of magnitude of the number of elementary particles in the universe.

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

That is also many orders of magnitude less than allowed contaminants in perscription medication. Pure and simple BS. Outside of the neutrino detectors, I doubt anyone can measure such concentrations. I only deal in science that does work, or that might work, given more study and thought.

I don't get homeopathy. Chiropractic, aroma, aura, energy healing, yeah, I will give them the benefit of a doubt. (I am firmly convinced that there are fields other than electro-magnetic. We only know how to detect e-m fields, so that is all we have studied.) Maybe homeopathic works at that level.

EDIT: _quietude_ just got home. She is studying to be a nurse-midwife, and is an RN interested in energy medicine. She says that homeopathic is an energy medicine, with very complex interactions. There is no possibility of it interfering with any other perscription medication, because of the math you noted. If you want it to really work for you, you need to see a homeopath to work out what energy needs you have. Absent that, you are taking water.

_quietude_ asked about anti-viral cream? Immune system tonic. Visualization techniques. At this point, it is important to boost the immune system to fight off the virus. An energy option may work.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

As elsewhere mentioned, my experience is chiropractic has a small number of very good, very knowledgeable practitioners, and a large majority of complete quacks.

By antiviral creams, are you — or is she — referring to products like Abreva, for cold sores? If so, it's a good thought. cymrullewes is out at the store right now, but unfortunately I can't reach her cell phone to suggest she buy some, she's out of signal. (Cellular coverage around here is best described as Bloody Awful.)

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

That is what I had in mind.