Depression sucks.

[unixronin]

And there's not a lot more than that to say.

My parents know a psychologist who does disability evaluations in Spokane, Washington.  When the subject of my foot trouble and the continuous pain came up in connection with applying for disability, he said, "Of course he's depressed.  Everyone who's in constant pain is depressed."

I hate that it's so hard to find joy in anything any more, or find sufficient motivation to do things.

Comments

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

I forget, are you on antidepressant(s)? There are so many out there that if you've had them before and they didn't work, it's worth trying a different one.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not, and frankly I don't want to be. My first experience with antidepressants was bad. My second was so horrific you couldn't get me to try them again at gunpoint. I have no fear of anyone's hell, because I've already been to mine.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

(The honest truth is, I probably still have post-traumatic stress disorder from the second time. PTSD never really goes away. You just .... learn to take most of the color and the sharp edges out of it, hide the dripping blood, and push it into the background most of the time.)

They are getting much better

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

I have a good one now, after being on bad ones. It takes a while, but it's worth the effort. However, talk therapy is good as well.

Re: They are getting much better

[jilara.livejournal.com]

Trust me, those words raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I was there for the experiences he talks about, and that's similar to what they kept telling me when I said "really, we're getting some VERY SCARY side effects." No, give it time, oh, and try adding this. The nineth circle of hell was a great place, comparatively.

Sure there are people who really do have biochemical conditions they help. But anything that says "Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor" with Alaric is like saying "Here, take this cynaide..." The problem is that antidepressants are usually issued treat symptoms rather than actual causes. The cause here is chronic pain. Different from seratonin reactions.

Re: They are getting much better

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

Not all antidepressants are SSRIs. I respect that he had bad experiences. However, there is a comparison in my mind to saying, for example, "The antibiotic Ceftin nearly killed me, so I will not take any antibiotic again ever."

Fixing depression due to chronic pain without fixing the chronic pain is still way better than chronic pain plus depression. (Not to mention that depression can exacerbate perception of pain.) The mental fog Alaric has mentioned is a classic symptom of depression, for instance. How much nicer would his life be right now if he could focus well enough to code?

Regardless of the method chosen (therapy, drugs, fun activities, sun exposure) I think treating Alaric's depression is an important issue right now. And given that depression leads to the inability to act, gentle or less gentle nudges from friends may be called for. (IMHO.)

Re: They are getting much better

[olafthunderfoot.livejournal.com]

http://foamy.aragirn.net/Foamy/Drugs_In_Your_Head.html

Re: They are getting much better

[olafthunderfoot.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, NSFW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: They are getting much better

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

The problem is it's something of a case of:

"No, these new drugs are much better, it'll be different this time. Trust me."
"Yeah, that's what the LAST doctor told me, LAST time. And I almost died."

Re: They are getting much better

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

So all drugs are evil, and all doctors are wrong?

Re: They are getting much better

[cymrullewes.livejournal.com]

No. All drugs of class SSRI are evil. All drugs of class cephlasporin are evil. All drugs of class Percocet are evil. All drugs of class ibuprofin are evil.

He's allergic to the cephlasporin antibiotics. Percocet makes him throw up. Ibuprofin makes him seize.

Penicillin (IIRR), Vicodin , and paracetamol are fine and they'll each do the jobs of the other list.

I don't think there is another variety of anti-depressive other than an SSRI. Neurontin supposedly has it as a side-effect but we didn't see that sort of improvement (nor the pain relief improvement either.)

Re: They are getting much better

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

No, neurontin is primarily an anti-seizure medication, that turns out to suppress neuropathic pain as a serendipitous side-effect so well that it's widely prescribed for that side-effect. And actually, I think that did help and work. It's just that neuropathic pain is no longer a significant component of the pain.

Wellbutrin is non-SSRI, I know, and there's the older tricyclics (which were pretty much just powerful sedatives), and there's one or two others that are in a class of their own. But ...... well, no, at this point I don't trust ANY medication whose purpose is to screw with my mind.

I can't take ibuprofen. But acetaminophen is fine, naproxen sodium is fine, etc. (They're just not very effective.) I can't take cephazolin .... but ciprofloxacin, moxifloxacin, penecillin, tetracycline, vancomycin, methicillin all work fine. Percocet makes me throw up .... but vicodin or Tylenol III/IV are OK. And so on.

Psychoactives such as antidepressants and anti-anxiety drugs, on the other hand, I distrust as a class. It appears I react very badly to them. ALL of them.

Re: They are getting much better

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Oh, and it's not that I consider, say, all cephalosporins evil per se .......... I just personally don't dare take them because anaphylactic shock doesn't sound like fun. I know ibuprofen is fine for anyone else in the house .... it just gives me involuntary muscle spasms and, at higher dosages, convulsions and delirium.

Re: They are getting much better

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

:I don't think there is another variety of anti-depressive other than an SSRI.

Other classes include tricyclics and monoamine oxidase inhibitors.

I'm not saying he should take him, I'm just saying SSRIs aren't the only thing out there.

Pity about the drug reactions. Makes life ever so much harder.

Re: They are getting much better

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

There are some -- MAOI, for a start. Stay _well_ away from the diazepines.

However, if Alaric is so gun-shy of antidepressants I'd recommend Cognitive Behaviour Therapy instead.

AND treatment of the chronic pain, as CBT's not likely to work well without it.

Big hugs to all of you, btw.

Re: They are getting much better

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

No, I didn't say that. But in the case of antidepressants, I'm pretty much at a position of "Fool me THREE times?!? How stupid do I look?"

Frankly, the very thought of trying antidepressants again after the last experience makes me shudder. I really truly don't know how to convey how horrible it was. Let's just not go there.

I''m aware of the problem

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

I've had both chronic pain and recurrant major depression. I had bunion surgery on both feet last year, in fact I had to have surgery on the right foot twice. I also had recurrent back and neck pain for years, although the back pain is down to twinges now, and my other pains are now manageable. Although they have mostly been by no means the same degree of pain, I know what it's like to be in so much pain that all you want to do is lie there and howl.

Yes, they are very, very different things. In my case, my depression has been with me in one form or another for 44 years. For me, saying dismissively that an antidepressant only treats the symptoms is as one said that unixronin shouldn't take anything for his pain because that only treats his symptoms.

Condescend much?

[cymrullewes.livejournal.com]

(forgive me unixronin for I am in a foul mood and will smite the unwary)

dakiwiboid, unixronin does indeed think that he shouldn't take anything for his pain unless it is so excruiating that he can't think, move, eat, or sleep.

dakiwiboid, jilara was there when unixronin tried to treat his symptoms of SSRI usage with a katana. I AGREE with her that under no circumstances what SO EVER should he ever attmept to take another SSRI. They were in no way exaggerating when they said that SSRIs are hellish on him.

Then I reiterate my suggestion of sunshine

[dakiwiboid.livejournal.com]

Although it can be damned near impossible to get oneself to do it, exposure to sunshine can help to a marked degree, as can forcing oneself to eat a reasonable diet. I know that it sounds old-fashioned, but there's new science to support it. My older sister's been prescribed light treatment, but sunshine is free.

However, if you re-read jilara's post calmly, you will see that it does imply that SSRIs simply treat EVERYONE's symptoms rather than providing substantive help. It WAS quite condescending.

Re: Then I reiterate my suggestion of sunshine

[cymrullewes.livejournal.com]

jilara said "Sure there are people who really do have biochemical conditions they help. But anything that says "Selective Seratonin Reuptake Inhibitor" with Alaric is like saying "Here, take this cynaide..." The problem is that antidepressants are usually issued treat symptoms rather than actual causes. The cause here is chronic pain. Different from seratonin reactions."

Let's go over that statement, shall we? people who really do have biochemical conditions they help does not imply EVERYONE to me. Then there is her use of the words usually and issued. Interesting word choices don't you think? Not that it is taken to treat the symptoms but that it is issued to treat them. One could take from that statement that jilara has little confidence in psychatrists.

Sunshine is indeed free. If it isn't raining. If it isn't snowing. If it isn't so cold that you can't go out. If you don't live in the middle of a row of townhouses that back against a wooded hillside (this is my pet peeve.)

Diet is the one thing that I think we haven't tackled yet that we really should as he often doesn't eat. Which is the vicious cycle. Don't eat so you feel bad so you don't feel like eating so you feel bad...

Re: Then I reiterate my suggestion of sunshine

[plutosonium.livejournal.com]

Yeah, diet could be a good thing to consider.

Is the weather already crappy up in New Hampshire, then?

Re: Then I reiterate my suggestion of sunshine

[jilara.livejournal.com]

Make of me whatever. I've learned that people will read into any statement whatever they want.

I know people who, after proper evaluation, are issued antidepressants and have very good luck with them, and it normalizes their life. Because they are properly evaluated and properly monitored. And situations can change. A friend who had good luck with Zoloft in the past and went off it for a few years recently went back on it because of depression in dealing with his mom's failing health. He got side effects so severe he literally couldn't walk, and they tested him for things like MS, etc. The doctor finally said "Let's try discontinuing the Zoloft." He made a full recovery after stopping the SSRI.

On the other hand, some doctors simply regard it as a panacea for the stressed or depressed. My best friend went to her doctor with various "stress" symptoms and was given prescription for antidepressants. They didn't seem to help, but her doctor told her to keep taking them. It turns out that some of the symptoms she was describing were those now known within the range of female *heart disease* --which killed her with a fatal heart attack a couple years later. (For those who haven't heard, anxiety, feelings of dread, etc. are now recognised symptoms of women's heart disease.) I've often wondered if her widower ever called the doctor and said "boy, did you ever screw up on my wife's diagnosis." I know I sure wanted to.

Er..... Take <s>2</s> <b>3, DAMMIT</b>

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

dakiwiboid, unixronin does indeed think that he shouldn't take anything for his pain unless it is so excruiating that he can't think, move, eat, or sleep.

This is a bit of an oversimplification. The problem is that most of the regular over-the-counter painkillers seem to have become ineffective on me -- or maybe it's just that they aren't strong enough to do the job -- while prescription painkillers that are strong enough to do the job leave me woozy and non-functional, and in some cases (Percocet, for example) have a tendency to make me nauseous. So I avoid taking them unless the pain's bad enough that I'm non-functional due to the pain anyway, because if I'm going to be non-functional, I may as well at least be non-functional and not hurting; but if I'm going to be in pain anyway, I may as well be in pain and still functional.

Re: Er..... Take <s>2</s> <b>3, DAMMIT</b>

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

And WTF, we can't use even BOLD tags in comment titles now?!?

What's next, all-flat-ASCII LiveJournal?!? This is getting bloody ridiculous. Snap the hell out of it, Livejournal!!!!!

[jilara.livejournal.com]

Having been there for it, I second this.