Bureaucracy FAIL

[unixronin]

I will never understand the reasoning that drives the local elementary school to send home field trip permission forms that not only require me to fill out anew for each field trip medical information that the school nurse's office already has on file, but also require me to fill out destination, date, time, and trip cost information from the front of the form TO ELSEWHERE ON THE FORM before returning the form to the school.  WTF is the POINT of the school requiring me to inform the school of data that the school has just proven to me that it already has?

The medical information, I can almost understand; some of it (the insurance, say) could have changed, and we could have forgotten to notify the school.  But even that section could be marked "Fill out this information if there has been a change" — then the teacher could just glance at that section and, if any of it is filled out, know the nurse's office needs to be informed of the change, and otherwise just go with what's on file.

But making me fill out the back of the form to tell the school information it just told me on the front of the form?  That's a ludicrous waste of everyone's time.  What are they going to do, accidentally send my kid on a field trip to a Titan missile silo in North Dakota by mistake instead of the Seacoast Science Center if I don't copy the information from the front to the back?

Comments

[ilcylic.livejournal.com]

Alaric, mate, think about the mental state of the average American Parent.

If you accurately copied the information from the front to the back, it gives them a much stronger legal case that you actually knew where your kid was going on the field trip.

Yes, yes, the existence of a permission slip should accomplish that, but this way, they can not only say "Mr. Pays-no-attention, you not only signed the form, but you wrote down the destination yourself."

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

You have a point. A depressing one, but a point.

[cymrullewes.livejournal.com]

That was my feeling on the matter. You write the information down which means you had to have read it. Plus, I think you're supposed to keep the top sheet which tells you the particulars of the field trip.

I hope Pirate enjoys the Seacoast Science Center. She did last year.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

They almost always send us a second copy of the field trip information right before the trip anyway.

[beckyzoole.livejournal.com]

This is exactly what I was going to say. Depressing, but probably necessary.

[jhetley.livejournal.com]

"The more things change, the more they remain the same . . ."

Did they require you to get the form notarized?

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Shhh! Don't give them ideas.

[lblanchard.livejournal.com]

The insurance info makes sense. If the permission forms go with the kids on the bus and there's some kind of a problem with your child's health, the chaperone has that info and a specific permission form for that trip in his/her satchel. It would make for a smoother trip to the ER.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Yes. But the way I would do it is have the teacher for each class have a binder with copies of the medical information for all the kids in her class. Any time parents notify the school nurse's office that there has been a change in a child's medical information has changed, the nurse can update her records and send a new copy of that sheet to the teacher to replace the one she already has in her binder. All a trip-specific permission slip needs to have on it is the child's name, the field trip date and destination, and the parent's signature and date authorizing medical treatment if required.

[skellington.livejournal.com]

Ah, but do you REALLY want a copy of your insurance information, which sometimes includes SSN as an identifier, to be left in a file in every teacher's desk?

ID theft by anyone with access to the school?

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Ah, but do you REALLY want a copy of your insurance information, which sometimes includes SSN as an identifier

It doesn't. The only medical information on record is the insurance provider, insurance ID number (which is not SSN), primary care physician, and allergies (none known).

[wyrdling.livejournal.com]

...and that paperwork would probably get put in a file of "stuff to do when i get the time" and rediscovered by the teacher at the end of the year if they clean up their room at that point. the sheer quantity of paperwork given teachers to shuffle is frightening. you'd think they were clerks with not much else better to do.

well, eh, that was my experience as a first year teacher in the public schools last year...

thus, the appeal of having exactly what you need put right in front of you without having to keep and maintain another set of logs. (the redundancy, i don't get, we had that too. probably legalistic garbage the professional counsel decided on for a security blanket.)

[brownkitty.livejournal.com]

Now you're just being optimistic. Paperwork making its way through a school in a timely manner? You're joking, right?

[argonel.livejournal.com]

Is the back of the sheet a generic form that stays the same for all field trips? They could be saving themselves effort by pre-printing one side of the form, then printing the trip details on the other side. Why should the administration worry about wasting parents time, after all they aren't paying the parents.

[rain-manpnw.livejournal.com]

The idea of a field trip is to go somewhere _else_, away from the school ... and the nurse's office ... and the medical information. The permission slips go with the kids because medical information like allergies are _time-sensitive_ - EMTs/ER do not have time to track down the school nurse somewhere back there and retrieve the information that little Johnny is allergic to bees AND penicillin.

The first part of the form is about the field trip, the second part is about the child's medical information. Most likely, the method when arranging a field trip is to collate the field-trip flyer w/ a generic medical-information form that can be used for everything from field trips to joining the lacrosse team.

Using the same blank form and just customizing the cover sheet is common practice, and would naturally result in requiring you to transfer information from the specific cover sheet to the generic medical form. That it also forces the you to _read_ the cover sheet (and hopefully comprehend what you're signing your child up for) can only be counted as a plus.

Keeping copies of children's medical records in the classroom is a BAD idea, as anyone who's tried to normalize a database knows. Trying to synch changes between parents and the school nurse is already a headache; involving a teacher who is already overworked and undertrained in medical information handling is a recipe for disaster - not to mention HIPAA lawsuits.

[perspicuity.livejournal.com]

yeah, my HIPAA alert flag went off on this one.

#

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

The idea of a field trip is to go somewhere _else_, away from the school ... and the nurse's office ... and the medical information. The permission slips go with the kids because medical information like allergies are _time-sensitive_ - EMTs/ER do not have time to track down the school nurse somewhere back there and retrieve the information that little Johnny is allergic to bees AND penicillin.

Well, yes. This is why on every field trip, the teacher takes a binder containing all the kids' necessary medical information.

But why compile that binder afresh every time?

Keeping copies of children's medical records in the classroom is a BAD idea, as anyone who's tried to normalize a database knows. Trying to synch changes between parents and the school nurse is already a headache; involving a teacher who is already overworked and undertrained in medical information handling is a recipe for disaster - not to mention HIPAA lawsuits.

Then let the nurse keep all the class binders in her office — after all, she has all the information in her files anyway — and keep them up to date. Before you leave for a field trip, you check out your class's binder. When you get back, you check it back in.

These are not intractable problems. They have simple solutions.

[rain-manpnw.livejournal.com]

> But why compile that binder afresh every time?

Because ... Johnny may miss this field trip, while making the next one, while James makes this one and misses the next.

Simply put - because the data set of students is fresh each time. Not to mention updates on medical information.

If the school system is smart, the forms are carbonless multi-copy (White goes to parent, pink goes in active class trip binder, goldenrod goes to permanent file for student - and pink gets bundled and stored as a cross-reference when the trip is over).

> Then let the nurse keep all the class binders in her office — after all, she has all the information in her files anyway — and keep them up to date.

Let's make more work for the already overworked school nurse, plus more storage issues. AND more work for the teacher, who has to merge in new medical information sheets - making sure she keeps the most current.

> These are not intractable problems. They have simple solutions.

For every complex problem there are simple and elegant solutions - and they're wrong.

The simplest solution is the current one that gets the parents involved. Making each step as simple as possible for the person involved reduces possible errors.

1. School combine a specific activity permission flier with a generic medical information form, sends them home with kids. This is simple repetive collating, any staffer can do it.

2. Parents fill out permision flier, copy specific information from there to medical form, update medical form. Send back both forms, keeping their copy.

3. Teacher collects forms, makes sure they're signed, separates trip copy and office copy, makes binder up. Once again, simple separate forms and make piles activity. Takes binder on field trip with students.

4. Staffer files office copies of permission form in student's permanent record.

5. Nurse's assistant files office copy of medical information in student's medical file. For HIPAA reasons, these are very likely separate from other student records.

6. When field trip is over, office staff bundles all the teacher's copies together as a record of that field trip.

Think of it like a database, Alaric - with humans stuck in the filing roles.

-If something happens while on the field trip, the necessary information is _right_there_ - not back at the school. Even if something happens to the teacher, there is written documentaion for whoever has to take charge of the kids.

-If there's a claim afterward, the parents have a copy of everything, and so does the school, in that student's records.

-If something comes up where the school needs to contact all the students on a particular field trip (okay, now WHO scheduled the trip to Chernobyl!?!) the don't have to scan through each student's records - they have all the forms for a single trip all bundled together.

You see - you _can't_ carry over the forms from one ectivity to the next. The people change. The medical information changes. Trying to do so, and trying to force people to do the extra work to keep things in synch, is a recipe for disaster.

The simpler, cleaner, more logical way is to treat each activity as a fresh start. From a logistics standpoint it's less work, and simpler tasks. From a record-keeping standpoint it's cleaner. From a legal CYA standpoint is more solid.

You're just grumpy 'cause you actually had to do some work. ;)

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Because ... Johnny may miss this field trip, while making the next one, while James makes this one and misses the next.Why is that a problem if the binder has the information for all the kids in the class?

Simply put - because the data set of students is fresh each time. Not to mention updates on medical information.

But why fill out all the information that hasn't been updated as well? Every time? By hand?

If the school system is smart, the forms are carbonless multi-copy (White goes to parent, pink goes in active class trip binder, goldenrod goes to permanent file for student - and pink gets bundled and stored as a cross-reference when the trip is over).

Nope. Single-part photocopied bond paper, used once. The teacher is supposed to notify the nurse if the "This is an update" box is checked.

Let's make more work for the already overworked school nurse, plus more storage issues. AND more work for the teacher, who has to merge in new medical information sheets - making sure she keeps the most current.

No, that's not what I said. The nurse already has the complete file, and already has to update that master file every time she gets passed an update by the teacher. The only difference to the nurse would be that when she's informed of an update, as well as entering it into her own files she then takes the update form and, instead of throwing it away, replaces the old copy in the appropriate binder and throws that one away. It doesn't make more work for the teacher — the teacher no longer has to check every form for updates, inform the nurse, and compile a binder for every field trip; all she has to do is check out the binder (kept up to date by the nurse's office) before every field trip and check it back in afterwards.

This doesn't create any new work. It just centralizes the actual updating and eliminates a whole lot of pointless, redundant makework.

The simplest solution is the current one that gets the parents involved. Making each step as simple as possible for the person involved reduces possible errors.

Exactly. Which is why last year, I took to making up a preprinted, pre-filled-out medical information sheet. And for every field trip, I'd print out a copy of the correct sheet and staple it to the permission slip.

Which doesn't change the fact that I'm still going to unnecessary extra work to provide the school with information it already has, and the teacher is going to unnecessary extra work checking every form that comes in to see whether the "This is an update; please notify the nurse" box is checked.

The simplest solution is the current one that gets the parents involved. Making each step as simple as possible for the person involved reduces possible errors.

Not only is the current "solution" very far from the simplest, but what you just described is even more unnecessarily complicated.

Think of it like a database, Alaric - with humans stuck in the filing roles.

Absolutely. If I wrote a commercial database system with this much redundancy pointless duplication of effort and data in it, I'd deserve to be fired.

-If something happens while on the field trip, the necessary information is _right_there_ - not back at the school. Even if something happens to the teacher, there is written documentaion for whoever has to take charge of the kids.

And there isn't if the teacher checked out the binder from the nurse's office instead of compiling her own every time?

[continued below]

[continued]

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

-If something comes up where the school needs to contact all the students on a particular field trip (okay, now WHO scheduled the trip to Chernobyl!?!) the don't have to scan through each student's records - they have all the forms for a single trip all bundled together.

And they don't have the permission slips now?

ou see - you _can't_ carry over the forms from one ectivity to the next.

Yes, you CAN. It's more efficient to just track the changes — centrally — than rebuild the entire database by hand every time you want to use it. That's almost the worst of all possible solutions.

You're just grumpy 'cause you actually had to do some work. ;)

Actually, no, I'm "grumpy" that the school is using a horribly wasteful and inefficient system of managing this information that makes more work for almost everyone involved, to no demonstrable gain, and creates a high probability of information loss. How many medical information updates never make it to the school nurse because the teacher missed the "This is an update" box — or the parent forgot to check it?

This is an awful solution. It should be fixed.

[ttocs.livejournal.com]

what happens if you authorise your child to go somewhere similar, but different, do they read the forms they get back?

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

I doubt it.

[elegantelbow.livejournal.com]

I suppose it proves that you read and understood the permission slip. But, it's more likely that no one has considered re-writing the permission slips in 40 years.

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

To make it more likely that the kid didn't just forge the parent's signature and hand the form in?