Mitt Romney to confirm bid for President in 2008

[unixronin]

The BBC's Washington correspondent asks, "Is American ready for a Mormon President?"  Massachusetts governor Mitt Romney, it is reported, will announce in January that he will run for President in 2008.  This won't come as a surprise to many people.

But here is a big difference between Mormons and other American evangelists - Mormons do not feel threatened by science.

This nation is still dominated by the mainstream sects of the Christian faith but faith based politics is out of favour.

They are not enemies of the rational world - they are not creationists.

And on human conduct they tend to stress setting personal examples rather than getting the state to enforce religious rules.

A Mormon President would probably still be too socially conservative to please most liberal voters.  On the other hand, it'd be an end to the current faith-based bushwah, and the Mormon church -- properly, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints -- believes in leading by example where religion is concerned, rather than in passing laws to force everybody to "Do as we do, or else."  Or so says the BBC; Romney, personally, strongly backed the ill-fated Marriage Protection Act, then after Massachusetts legalized gay marriages in 1993, he resurrected the "1913 law" which bars Massachusetts non-residents from marrying in Massachusetts if the marriage would not be legal in their home state.  If he couldn't stop gay Massachusetts couples from marrying in Massachusetts, then at least by god he'd stop gay couples from as many other states as he could from coming to Massachusetts to marry.

A point in his favor is that Romney is a successful businessman in his own right, unlike George W. Bush's unenviable "career" record of flying previously-sound companies into the ground.  Romney, by contrast, saved Bain & Company from financial collapse, and did it without any layoffs, then went on to rescue the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics from a fiscal shortfall and allegations of bribery against the then Salt Lake Olympics Committee President and Vice-President, both of whom had been forced to resign in disgrace.

Perhaps surprisingly, coming from politically liberal Massachusetts, Romney will run as a right-wing Republican.  (There's nothing strange about this for Romney; only for Massachusetts, long time stronghold of the Kennedys, though Romney fought Ted Kennedy to his narrowest victory ever for the Senate in 1994.)  Amy Sullivan of Washington Monthly, though, writes that this won't satisfy Bush's evangelical power bloc -- to the narrow minds of the Christian Right, the Mormon faith isn't a Christian faith or even a proper religion at all, it's a cult.  To mainstream America, Mormons are a little odd and quirky, sometimes the subject of jokes; to evangelical Christians, they're blasphemers, apostates, heretics, agents of Satan.  The fundamentalists hate Mormons worse than they hate Catholics, worse even than they hate Jews.  (A hatred that's oddly contradictory in itself, considering that they profess the one and only path to Heaven is to accept a two-thousand-years-dead Jew into your heart as your personal savior.  Oh, but wait, we're talking the alternate history of Christian fundamentalists, in which Jesus of Nazareth was a blue-eyed, blond Aryan.)

To me, it sounds as though Romney's going to be between a rock and a hard place.  If he can't please the liberals, can't please the moderates, and can't please the evangelical bloc ... then who is going to vote for him?

Comments

[radarrider.livejournal.com]

Given what I currently know, I would vote for Romney over anybody the Democrats could conceivably run without hesitation.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Frankly, so would I. His good points much outweigh his flaws, even if he did support the Brady Bill and the Ban On Some Ugly Guns. That's not to say the Republicans couldn't find a candidate I'd sooner vote for ... but I don't think the Democrats will. (Hillary? Get real. One Clinton administration was plenty, even before she became a carpetbagger.)

[genuine-snark.livejournal.com]

Or so says the BBC; Romney, personally, strongly backed the ill-fated Marriage Protection Act...

Perhaps he did this because he personally believed strongly in those values, rather than the church believing them for him. I still don't agree with him, but I can respect that line of thought.

I think we (intellectuals, particularly liberal ones) have a tendency to assume that a religious person makes their moral decisions for religious reasons. While I'm sure that's often true--the political power of organized religion is considerable--reasonable people often stay with religions because their morals more or less naturally align. I tend to think that one's faith is more of a data point than a predictor, when attempting to gauge someone's future decisions.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Oh, sure. My point in that regard was simply that the BBC's assumption or implication - that Romney won't pass laws to legislate his view of morality, simply because his chosen church prefers not to do so - appears on the basis of his past record to be pretty obviously wrong.

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

The Church has a culture of self reliance and individual responsibility stemming from it's Utah pioneer days. Those two values seem universal in all the members that I know. Politically, the LDS tend to be conservative, but they land everywhere on the political map.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Personal responsibility and self-reliance are good. Personally, every time someone tells me "Well, everyone has to believe in something", my first impulse is to answer, "Wouldn't it be a good starting place to believe in ourselves?" When I yield to the impulse, it usually wins me either a look of blank incomprehension or a reflexive invocation of the "But you have to accept Christ as your savior!" mantra. I have never understood the need of so many Christian sects to believe that we are flawed, impure sinners who can do good only at the will and direction of some chosen supernatural entity.

(And don't even get me started on "original sin". I don't want any part of any religion that chooses to make its god so vindictive that it thinks a newborn baby is already tainted with sin.)

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

Mormon's specifically do not believe in "original sin".

It all goes back to the purpose of this mortal existence. Mormon's believe that this is the time to learn to make good decisions. Often learning involves negative feedback. Pray like it all depends on G-d, work like it all depends on you, is a common saying. (That way, when blessing drop on your head, you are grateful.)

It is important to note the the structure is all about supporting the individual and family become better. There really is not a thought consensus in most things. It is a radical idea, no wonder the evangelicals hate us.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Now, see, that's a healthy approach.

[koyote.livejournal.com]

It's far far from universal. But it's stronger than in any of the christian religions I know.

The Mormons have a lot going for them on several fronts- from not automagically condemning buddhists to hell to family building and social activities- but the very very authoritarian heirarchal craziness also lends itself to some outrageuous abuses.

I'd still be a lot more comfortable with an LDS president (sorry about the pun) than a southern baptista....

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

So would I. Though the whole thing about retroactively converting all your ancestors when you join the Church, living or dead, whether they like it or not, still comes across to me as the most unspeakable arrogance.

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

Properly - The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I have been active in that organization for about twenty years. Also the faith of Harry Reid, the incoming Senate Majority Leader.

Also known as people.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Oops, bad fingers, no donut. Thanks for catching it. Fixed.

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

I'd be more inclined to beliee the separation between personal views and legislating morality deal if I hadn't gotten mail from the church asking me to vote against California's same sex marriage bill a few years ago.

[ithildae.livejournal.com]

That sounds very strange to me. The Church's policy is to stay out of politics. Period. They have made statements that make same sex marriage incompatible with proclamations, but sending letters is a no-no. (The LDS church is stable financially, and is very protective about it's tax-exempt status, among other reasons.) Are you sure the letters were official Church mailings and not some member doing a mailing? (Using church rosters for non-church purposes is also forbidden.)

[therealocelot.livejournal.com]

It appeared to be an official mailing from the ward (or possibly stake) I'd been a member of before moving, but I didn't follow up to make sure, so it's entirely possible it was an individual action intended to look official. It's possible that it was worded in a neutral fashion ("We encourage you to go vote" or something along those lines), but my recollection was that the voting against the same sex marriage bill was, at the least, strongly implied.

[koyote.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the little things- like Mormon Patriotism....


Okay, the anti gay thing is a bit shitty, right? But it's not an extreme thing for Mormons, it's just a matter of fact part of the religion. Sucks, but they don't feel as evil to me most of the time as the "truck dragging" lynch mob evangelicals.....

The fundies do - really- hate Mormons. Mormons are more properly gnostics than calvinists. And the fundies know it.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

I know its an issue upon which their religion -- as well as most self-declared Christian religions -- is completely inflexible. And I'm not neglecting, as you put it, Mormon Patriotism; nor the tendency of Mormons in general to be pro-RKBA and prepared for SHTF scenarios. Romney, however, doesn't share those particular positives; unusually for a right-wing Republican, he's a firm advocate of victim disarmament.

I agree with you on Mormons as a whole. Most of the Mormons I've known personally have been fine people, even if one or two were a little odd.

[skellington.livejournal.com]

While in theory the Mormons keep out of politics, there are many laws in Utah relating to alcohol, etc. that certainly reflect their beliefs.

In a lot of ways, I think you could compare them to certain Islamic sects that simply don't see a difference between the laws and the rules handed down by god.

And while they practice what they preach, for the most part, what they preach is hideously un-attractive to me.

And this doesn't say anything about Romney personally, as, like the Islamic sects in the world, some folks are crazier than others in every religion. But you'd have to do some serious convincing to get me to vote for him.

[ilcylic.livejournal.com]

As a firmly ex mormon, I believe I could vote for a mormon candidate. But not Romney. Bloody Masshole.

[outtamyskull.livejournal.com]

I've lived in MA for Twit's entire run as Gov. There's a real solid reason he didn't run for office again, he wouldn't have won, not even close.

It would take a bleak, bleak, bleak race for me to vote for him.