So ... it appears we're not moving to Lakewood.

[unixronin]

Short version:  The Americorps program in Lakewood contacted us about a week and a half ago and offered us both places in a program teaching small businesses about computer security.  I, meanwhile, had just two days earlier interviewed with Yahoo, and had been told to expect an interview with UBS (think Gnomes of Zurich) within 48 hours.  So we said, "Can we have a couple of days to think this over?  I just had an interview with Yahoo and I'd like to find out how it went before we decide."

"Sure," they said.  "But we probably need to know by August 4th."  So on August 3rd, three busiiness days later, we sent mail back accepting the Lakewood offer, only to hear nothing for five more days and then learn that because we'd asked for time to consider instead of accepting right there and then on the phone, they'd gone off -- after telling us we had time to think it over -- and interviewed some more people and given the positions to someone else.

Yahoo, meanwhile, had decided (it appears) that I don't have enough NAS experience (which is to say, none), and UBS are still sitting on their gnomish hands in Connecticut and haven't interviewed anyone for the position I've been presented for there (for which, if you believe the recruiter, I'm an excellent match).

You know the job market is bad when it's an employer's market even for subsistence-level volunteer work.

And yet....  and yet the fellow geeks I know in Silicon Valley seem to be getting hired left, right and center.  (Mostly by Yahoo, ironically.  paeyl just got hired for the job I interviewed for.)  This makes me feel like an abject failure.  There is no future in being a polymath.  If there's a sweet spot between "You're overqualified for this position"/"This job pays $amount-you-can't-support-a-family-on" and "You don't have enough experience in $specific-field for us" in this economy, I have yet to find it.

Comments

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I don't know which fellow geeks you know, around here, but they sure aren't in my own circle. Most of the folks I know are happy because they're finally getting interviews, even without offers. I do know a few folks who have gotten employed again, at 1/3 to 1/2 their previous salary, and are thrilled to be working again, but not as many as the previous category.

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Well, I didn't say it was everyone.

I think you've got to be young and in the right circles. And as always, most of the new hirees I know bear out the axiom that it's easier to get a job when you already have a job.

[jilara.livejournal.com]

I do notice that those who have the most luck are those who already employed (and hence have bargaining power).

ARRRGH!

[felinecanine.livejournal.com]

Sorry to hear about that. Is it possible that Americorps in Lakewood or in other locations might still have suitable positions available?

I also wonder if paeyl's soon to be ex-$COMPANY is hiring. You might want to look into it.

Re: ARRRGH!

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

There are other programs. We've been referred to another program in Washington (though nowhere near so well-suited), and we're in contact with programs in Vermont and New Hampshire, but for the most part they're all literate-warm-body positions except for the public-speaking/outreach/raise-funding ones I'd feel totally lost in. The most technical task any of them is likely to demand me to do is send email.

But then, at this point I have so little confidence left in my ability to ever get a tech job again that I don't know if that really makes a difference. If it wasn't that my medical issues won't allow me to be on my feet all day, I'd be looking seriously at Home Depot and the like. I understand HD checkers make $18 an hour.

I don't know if $(paeyl_employer)-- is hiring or not. I assume so. I could probably make good money making book against them ever hiring me.

Existing possibilities

[aalauber.livejournal.com]

i don't know if $COMPANY{paeyl}-- is hiring for my positon or not. they dunno what they're doing about it yet. i did mention to my manager that i knew a guy that could prolly do the job, but wasn't local and perhaps didn't interview very well ;).

however, there is someone in a similar position to you that has worked at $COMPANY{paeyl}-- before. so while i wish i could offer you a basket of strong hope, all i got is this tantalizing whiff. sorry :/

i do keep my eye out for you. don't forget to keep up on craigslist postings :)

for that matter, there MUST be open positions in other fields besides tech that you could do? there are jobs to be had, at almost anytime. the trick is always presenting yourself as the confident, nonchalantly capable person motivated to do the job well.

bon chance.

Re: Existing possibilities

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

for that matter, there MUST be open positions in other fields besides tech that you could do?

I'm sure there must be. Perhaps that's just a failure of imagination. I keep trying to think of what else I could make a living at, and I keep not coming up with anything.

The fact that I still cannot be on my feet for long periods of time rules out a lot of things I might otherwise have gone for simply as a stopgap to have money coming in.

there are jobs to be had, at almost anytime. the trick is always presenting yourself as the confident, nonchalantly capable person motivated to do the job well.

Indeed. My confidence, unfortunately, is very badly cracked and I don't know how to regain it without ... uh ... external proof, for lack of a better word. It's something of a circular problem.

I do my best, but so far it evidently hasn't been enough.

[ilcylic.livejournal.com]

I suspect you've already taken this lesson away from the scenario, but here it is in black and white just in case: the next time you get an offer, take it. Then, at least, you will have income while you look for the next thing.

"The bird in the hand is worth two in the bush."

-Ogre

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

Yes, and that thought did not escape us, and we spent about half those three days agonizing and tearing our hair. We didn't even take as long as they'd told us we could. But if UBS in particular had come through .... well, it would have been the difference between spending a year in poverty-level subsistence, or getting us completely back on our feet in that same year. Or if Yahoo had said yes, I'd have been back working with other 'miners again, and that counts for a hell of a lot in my eyes. Once people finally got the idea into my head that I was good enough, I took an almost $10K pay cut from Cardima to work with 'miners.

All the same, yes, I was very very strongly leaning towards taking it right then on the phone, poverty level or not. Especially since we'd promised ourselves we would take the first offer we got, lest we lose it. And then we let it slip away because Yahoo and UBS looked so good.

As previously mentioned, I am finding myself increasingly unable to make any decisions of consequence because I'm so afraid of making YET ANOTHER wrong decision. I increasingly frequently find myself wondering if I have ever made a single right decision in my life.

Decisions

[felinecanine.livejournal.com]

As previously mentioned, I am finding myself increasingly unable to make any decisions of consequence because I'm so afraid of making YET ANOTHER wrong decision. I increasingly frequently find myself wondering if I have ever made a single right decision in my life.

I don't think you should second-guess yourself here. Despite the consequence, I still think you were right to think about the position before accepting. In particular, this position carried a commitment with it that you might have had a hard time backing out of if conditions changed.

It sounds like the other party in this failed to honor their commitment to you. Maybe the only lesson here is to get more clarification the next time, but I wouldn't use that as a reason to rush into things in the future.

Re: Decisions

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

I hear you, on both points.

Sure, it carried a commitment ... but what job doesn't?

Re: Decisions

[felinecanine.livejournal.com]

Sure, it carried a commitment ... but what job doesn't?

I thought there was a contractual commitment to the Americorps job. Sometimes there's a commitment where you'd have to repay relocation expenses or things like that. Otherwise, most companies would be understanding if you received a much better offer from somewhere else and left them at the altar or soon after joining. Or at worst, you could just do it and not be stuck
with any contractual obligations.

Re: Decisions

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

There is a contractual commitment, and if you don't fulfill your commitment, you do not get the stipend or educational award at the end. As far as I know, there is no other penalty. That's little different than, say, going to work at $COMPANY and deciding to leave before your first year's stock options vest.

You said it,

[iphy.livejournal.com]

but I will again. I know of plenty of people who have no steady job and have not for years now; and people who already have steady jobs who are getting new ones.

It is very frustrating to watch people who already have jobs get new jobs all over the place while watching one of the smartest information security guys (and one of the better *nix sysadmins) I've met suffer because his company went out of business 2001 and he hasn't seen steady work since. HR departments actually seem to think that the people who were out of work in 2001/2002 were out of work because they were no good. Guess they missed all the reports of layoffs, startup failurs, plummeting stock, and so on.

Re: You said it,

[unixronin.livejournal.com]

HR departments actually seem to think that the people who were out of work in 2001/2002 were out of work because they were no good. Guess they missed all the reports of layoffs, startup failures, plummeting stock, and so on.

<HR> But ... that was then. What relevance does that have to now? </HR>

[micheinnz.livejournal.com]

Argh.

*bighugs*

I'm sure the right job is out there for you somewhere. It has to be.

And yes, I'm still looking...